LyricalRiot asked if I’d seen Wayward Jedi’s recent video on Ben’s redemption. I started to reply as a comment, then decided the topic merited its own post.
I agreed with the general points WJ made. I think he oversimplified the crimes that Ben’s committed as Kylo Ren, but his point remains the same–how has Kylo Ren as an individual figure offended the galaxy? What do they even know about him, what he’s done? The galaxy knows, fears, and resents the First Order as a collective entity–not necessarily individual members. The Resistance didn’t hesitate to trust Finn when they had no reason to–he could have been an undercover spy sent to infiltrate their ranks and destroy them from the inside. And sure he helped them, but for selfish reasons. Not exactly heroic. Yet they took him at his word and gave him every confidence. If “Kylo Ren” publicly renounces the Order, and if influential figures among the Resistance believe he’s sincere–namely Leia, Rey, Poe, and Finn–the others will follow their lead. Ben will go on to prove himself, gain their trust, maybe even their respect, and ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom–he’s redeemed.
Privately, he’ll live with the guilt of killing his father, and no one could punish him for that more than he’ll punish himself. Luke’s death wasn’t his fault, that was Luke’s choice, and as for Lor San Tekka and the villagers–well, since they were members of the Church of the Force who’s entire spiritual mission was to balance the Force, perhaps Ben’s essential role in balancing it and helping the galaxy find peace will be enough to let their spirits rest. San Tekka mourned Ben Solo, and he seemed like a pretty selfless, non-spiteful guy, so Ben Solo returning in earnest would probably be enough for him. That was all Han wanted, all Leia wanted even after Han’s death.
There’s the fellow Jedi apprentices Ben supposedly slaughtered, but what happened that fateful night is so murky yet… We really only know Luke’s POV, and he didn’t see what went down after Ben collapsed the hut. Ben shared his perception of what happened in the hut, but nothing else. I’m not convinced he killed the others, though I won’t fight the truth if he did; he was in a bad place that night emotionally. But Snoke could have been involved, and we know zip-zero about the apprentices who disappeared with Ben–they certainly didn’t stop the massacre. Regardless, Luke kept his fledgling Order so secret that I doubt the galaxy knows jack squat about it, much less that Leia and Han’s son supposedly destroyed it.
So what crime could the galaxy hold Kylo Ren as an individual accountable for? And don’t even bother saying the Hosnian system. They can’t pin that on him. I could see an argument for the fact that he ordered the attack on Crait–but again, can they pin that on him? Did the Resistance know he was in charge of that attack? Did they know Snoke was dead? (I’m under the impression that Rey didn’t communicate with them.) Did they think Hux wasn’t in any way involved? Ben’s role in dismantling the First Order, balancing to the Force, and bringing peace to the galaxy is going to have be enough atonement for any Resistance deaths he’s responsible for.
Of course, this entire argument could be destroyed by whatever happens in IX.
Anyway, that’s how I rationalize it to myself. Feel free to poke holes in it.
Yesssss I agree with everything here. Those were my thoughts watching the video too. I wonder if Rey knows about Ben, Finn, and Poe’s roles at the Sacred Village. If she knows they were all there, and if she knows Ben okay’d the massacre. She went there a couple times, according to RSG. Then again, maybe it wouldn’t matter because she already knows the “monster” he was and would just consider it par for the course.
As far as galaxy-wide crimes, we don’t really know a whole lot about what kind of service he rendered as Snoke’s wardog before TFA. But we know he wasn’t nearly as bad as Vader, and I don’t think they will have him face galactic justice. It’ll be more a more private and personal recompense.
And Amy — I have the same assumption about what happened at the temple! I thought that a few Luke-loyals would have tried to confront Ben when they heard the hut collapse, and Ben would be unable to convince them of what happened. Conflict ensues and a few who are more dark-inclined (maybe Ben has already been talking to them in secret about the things Snoke has been teaching on the down-low) side with him and even though Ben doesn’t WANT to kill them, he doesn’t want to die more. He’s not in a good place that night. He can’t think rationally. It’s all emotion. And after it’s all over he and his companions flee.
Or maybe he has an Anakin-slaughtering-younglings apathy to all of it, but I hope not.
Also I’ve decided that I’m okay without Ben and Rey being gods-made-mortal but I really don’t want them to be Anakin and Padme reincarnated. Mostly because I hate Anakin and tbh I get bugged with Padme. And I LOVE Ben and Rey so I really just want them to be their own characters with their own journeys to complete this family circle.
In the TFA novel, Rey’s talking to BB-8 and says she heard a rumor that the First Order attacked a sacred village nearby. BB-8 tells her that’s where it came from, but then thugs attack and I don’t think any more was said about it. I, too, wonder if she ever pieced together that story or if anyone filled her in. What Ren did there probably wouldn’t surprise her, though she’s still be horrified.
I don’t care for Anakin or Padme, either; their relationship creeped me out major, not gonna lie. I don’t think I’d mind if Ben and Rey turned out to be Anidala reincarnated, though given the choice I’d want them to be their own characters, too.
I think they’re pulling pieces from Anakin and Padme in order to create symmetry. I can’t remember who’s video it was but they compared the 9 movies to a Greek tragedy where it cycles through to a final happy ending. I’d be horribly disappointed in the franchise if it’s just Anakin and Padme trying to fix what they messed up.
I also think they’re borrowing heavily from the Legends material – most of which I didn’t know about until I started chasing rabbits down holes when someone mentioned Darth Revan (if you haven’t looked him up you should). I also hope they’re not gods made mortal. I think there’s too much canon lore that lets them have the force working through them instead of the force being them. There are so many redemption and grey Jedi examples that I really think that’s where they’re going. I don’t think we’ll see the aftermath of what happens once they eliminate the big bad and bring order to the galaxy – no war crimes trial, no government set up, I think it’ll just end a la return of the Jedi where you think everything is fine now.
I think everyone was bugged and/or creeped out with the Anakin child/Padme almost adult relationship…but the more I think about it I think it was Lucus’s poor attempt to replicate the hero’s journey and chose to represent Anakin’s child state as an actual child. It was just flat out uncomfortable…
WJ went deep into mythological storytelling and cycles, but he’s probably not the only one, so it might not have been a video of his that you recall. And yeah, they’ve totally jacked a bunch of ideas from Legends–and that kind of irritates me. On one hand, I’m glad they’re utilizing the material that so many passionate people worked hard to create in the decades following the OT; on the other, they can’t have their cake and eat it, too. Disney threw away all of that canon when they took over…yet they’re picking through the remains like buzzards. But regardless–I remember Revan being mentioned as Reylo evidence, and though I meant to, I never looked into him. Reading about him now, I can see the parallels that could have been inspiration for the ST, for Rey and Ben. He’s a fascinating character…though he didn’t have much of a happy ending. Or a happy life in general. I hope Rey and Ben have more of an HEA than Revan and Bastila.
I listened to the video yesterday…I thought he downplayed the village massacre but was correct in pointing out that more than likely the galaxy knows nothing of the massacre. In the eyes of the galaxy Kylo Ren is guilty by association but his motives as detailed in TFA novilzation are ultimately peace (via a sledgehammer but peace none the less). He completely skimmed over the fact that his nick name is “Jedi Killer” – earned by destroying Luke’s training temple and supposedly half of the students. I personally don’t buy it – I think he escaped the hut, everyone woke up to see what caused the commotion, he says Luke tried to kill him, half of them don’t believe him and a melee breaks out – the ones left standing are the ones that stood by him – because he’s really good with a light saber – and are now known as the knights of Ren. Yes, I know, no actual evidence but I like to believe someone at the school was his friend and stood by him. And if I were going to bet on it, if the Knights happen to play a role in IX someone’s name is a variation of Alec (two words…Darth Revan). So…back to the galaxy – there seemed to be general knowledge about the destruction of the Jedi training temple at least among the resistance and my guess is among the powers that be as well. Between that and guilt by association he’s fighting an uphill battle. BUT, it will depend on who stands with him…I mean, really, how many people has Poe killed at this point? (I like Poe and none of them were intentional but still…he probably actually has a higher body count).
“via a sledgehammer” LOL! I completely agree. I left a comment on the video’s page saying almost exactly what you just said.